Nice 980

[donv]

Nice looking 980 listed by Bruce (I assume?)

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/20609597/1980-commander-980

I see it has the Schiff ACM-- I wonder how well that works?

[Bruce Byerly]

Thanks Don.  I am planning to see it firsthand again soon.  Maybe someone here will give me an excuse to go fly it!  Lubbock Texas anyone?

Like a Sundstrand, the CCU works great until it doesn't.  If they had only upgraded the old Fairchild units from the A/B, we wouldn't have much to talk about regarding environmental systems!

[donv]

Does the camera door add much weight? I know Steve Binnette has one as well.

The only camera door 980 I've flown didn't have an interior, so you couldn't really tell.

[Adam Frisch]

Just looked through the books of an 840. It has had no less than 14 ACM/Sundstrand repairs/replacements in its lifetime. That's an appalling number by any standard. Embarrassing even. Gene Good, longtime Commander owner/operator had had 6 Sundstrands replaced in 9 years of ownership before he went to the Schiff CCU system. That's almost one each year!

The proof is in the pudding, gents. It would be the first thing I changed if I owned a 690 or Jetprop. Nothing can be worse than a failure every year almost. Not only that - it adds horsepower, reduces fuel flow and removes the potential for contaminated aerotoxic air, which would make it worth it for me alone. Plus it can be run on the ground to cool off cabin by just plugging it in. Or above FL180, which the others can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz3LqHWhaA8

[donv]

And yet my airplane is still on it's original Sundstrand unit! And it works great-- delivers lots of air, way better than the Enviro, especially when coupled with a Keith Freon air conditioner.

[donv]

690 has an entirely different unit, which is basically trouble-free. I don't ever recall having ECU problems on a 690.

[Adam Frisch]

What's your secret, Don? How do you keep it trouble free? Do you do preventive overhauls/services?

Bruce - how involved is it to plug camera hole? Seems like Steve did it relatively pain free. Will it need new interior to cover this area? Is the camera port worth any money second hand? Has it got long range tanks?

[Steve binnette]

My camera hole is flush and is hardly noticeable.  I left it in thinking it might be useful during resale.

My empty weight is 7050lbs, pretty good for a 980 with a camera hole.  That piece of glass looks like it weighs 75lbs or more.

The main cost was fabricating a cover for the interior gap.  I am not sure what it cost exactly, the cost is buried with all the other things done at that time.

[Bruce Byerly]

Just looked through the books of an 840. It has had no less than 14 ACM/Sundstrand repairs/replacements in its lifetime. That's an appalling number by any standard. Embarrassing even. Gene Good, longtime Commander owner/operator had had 6 Sundstrands replaced in 9 years of ownership before he went to the Schiff CCU system. That's almost one each year!

The proof is in the pudding, gents. It would be the first thing I changed if I owned a 690 or Jetprop. Nothing can be worse than a failure every year almost. Not only that - it adds horsepower, reduces fuel flow and removes the potential for contaminated aerotoxic air, which would make it worth it for me alone. Plus it can be run on the ground to cool off cabin by just plugging it in. Or above FL180, which the others can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz3LqHWhaA8

There are those that have been removed in favor of Enviro. Just sayin.  It's not so clear cut.  I've been in Gene's plane after failures, during CCU troubleshooting, and I've flown it to FL350.  Frankly I would love to see a perfect replacement for a Sundstrand and I'm sure Peter continues to develop his system and I probably need to get an update on the latest.  There are customers who swear by it, no doubt.

I work hard with knowledgeable tech experts to figure out how to maintain and operate Sundstrands but too often they turn up broken.  Don's plane is proof that it can work, but it's not likely to work forever.  They also fail in other applications so it's not just Commanders with the good luck.

The 690A/B works just fine as designed in my experience.  I can count on one hand the number of turbine failures I've seen in that system. It's like an iron skillet. Looks like one too. 

[Bruce Byerly]

What's your secret, Don? How do you keep it trouble free? Do you do preventive overhauls/services?

Bruce - how involved is it to plug camera hole? Seems like Steve did it relatively pain free. Will it need new interior to cover this area? Is the camera port worth any money second hand? Has it got long range tanks?

Cameras hole are very expensive (like several hundred thousand dollars depending on type) but do not interfere with normal operations at all if they are simply covered internally with seat tracks, etc. Externally, some, like Steve, have removed the doors for a cleaner look but that can be reversed. Metal replaces the glass to save a bit of weight and prevent damage to the expensive optical glass. They can be worth a fair bit when needed. I think it's a nice plus. 

980's are generally 425 gal and I do not believe JT has been modified.

[donv]

There are three keys to operating the Sundstrand:

1) Never, ever, ever, ever use Max Flow.

2) Add oil to it every 25 hours. You can't check the oil, all you can do is add until it overflows.

3) Make sure the airplane has the various service bulletins related to additional cooling of the unit. If it's lasted this long, it almost certainly has them, but never hurts to make sure.

I suspect that staying away from hot, humid environments probably helps too, but that's just a guess. And, there's nothing wrong with going to that sort of place occasionally, I'm talking about being based there.

What's your secret, Don? How do you keep it trouble free? Do you do preventive overhauls/services?